Continuing my investigation of the Far Place...
I'm trying to match
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158991363789017&set=gm.2079906742185314
and its extract https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-far-place/
with
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-tribes-of-sartar-1625-1626/
Versus the information in Wyrms Footnotes 15 (yes, I know its canonicity is questionable) Specifically, I'm looking at matching the clans on the clan maps to the tribes.
The tribe boundaries on the two maps are similar but don't quite match. I'm assuming the well of daliath tribal map is more accurate than the WF15 one (p.31), especially as it matches more closely with the clan maps. For example, the elbow angle of the border of the Tanzarsk (sp?), the point of which lies on Jerra Hil. That matches with the Daliath tribal map and puts that clan firmly in the Vantaros. The Engol would also be in Tantaros, as would the Barley's Valley clan, as Alda-chur lies in their lands. However, there is no line on the clan map that matches neatly with the Vantaros-Princeros border on the Daliath tribal map. Also, at best, I can find five clans that lie in the Princeros lands (Sharl, Wild Bull, Mule Deer, Lanceros and Sidask (sp?)). And the Sidask lands seem to run right up to Alda-chur, which might mean they are Vantaros, not Princeros.
But according to WF15 the Princeros have 8 clans, not 4-5. And are 10,000 strong. which means if they do have 4-5 clans, they are very big clans. More generally, from the sketch map, I'm only seeing 16 clans for the Princeros Vantaros and Tovtaros. Here's my guesses, based on the Daliath tribal map of which tribe for them
-
Princeros
- Sharl
- Wild Bull
- Lanceros
- Sidask (sp) (and maybe they are Vantaros)
- Mule deer
-
Vantaros
- Barley's Valley
- Bright Spear
- Gold Helm
- Engol
- Tanzarsk (sp)
- Dwarf Friend
-
Tovtaros
- Brown Bear
- Haladon
- Orlinim
- Ulandring
- Blue Fort
That gives them five (Tovtaros), six (Vantaros), five (Princeros), where WF 15 has Tovtaros 3, Vantaros 8 and Princeros 8 (19 clans). There could be one unnamed clan south of the Barley's Valley clan. The Daliath tribal map puts that area in the Vantaros and there is a small circle for a settlement, but there's no clan name. That would give the Vantaros 7 clans, very close to the WF15 number. Eight, if the Sidask are actually Vantaros. That the Tovtaors have 5 clans were WF15 said three is neither here nor there - 800 people per clan seems better for them anyway. But that would all leave the Princeros at 10,000 people and four clans. Which seems odd.
The tribe sizes from WF15 are Tovtaros 4,000 , Vantaros 9.500 and Princeros 10,000, which match with the population for the Far Place from, eg, the guide and https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-far-place/, which gives the population around Alda-Chur as 31000 (which includes the Dinacoli and Alda-chur itself).
The Amad, Bachad and Tres match up better between the various sources, but not perfectly
-
Amad
- Wahote
- Pathrand (sp?)
- Sarnak
-
Tres
- Kalintor
- Skase
- Agwari
-
Bachad
- Flint
- Golden Poppy
- Turtle
That's nine clans, which is what WF15 gives them, but WF15 has the Amad at two clans and the Bachad at 4 clans. the difference there would seem to be the Sarnak, which the Daliath tribal map puts firmly in Amad lands when compared to the map from facebook.
But my real question is around the current canon numbers for tribal populations and clan numbers for the Princeros, Vantaros and Tovtaros. Do we know how they stack up?
The biggest issue seems to be the Princeros, whose possibly 4 clans and 10,000 people seems a mismatch.