This would have been a further derailment of the "What is Canon" thread, so I'll reply in a new thread.
On 8/26/2020 at 2:57 PM, Bill the barbarian said:Yes, I see yer point Joerg, Orlanthi do not have ships, Ever, none, don’t even live near water. Got it
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You did mean Sartarites right? I mean, Sartarites that do not live near water.
Orlanthi don't really captain any seagoing ships. You cannot be an Orlanth worshipper and perform Dormal's magic, unless you are an illuminate without any respect for the cult you joined. Most of the Sea Gods bear a grudge against the Storm Tribe, and the merfolk have at best mixed feelins for their Storm ancestors and the circumstances they "married" their ancestresses.
23 hours ago, M Helsdon said:Well, the Esrolians are Orlanthi: they have ships, some of the largest humans have before the Waertagi come back.
The Esrolian houses have Pelaskite clients building their ships, opening the seas for them, etc.
Their grain barges are fairly sizeable, but grain barges have to be in order to make at least a modicum of a profit.
23 hours ago, M Helsdon said:Some of the Janube valley Orlanthi probably have ships.
The Orlanthi of southern Peloria have ships, on the Oslir.
River traffic is plenty different from sea traffic. Sailing a river is managing choke-hold after choke-hold.
Would you call the Assyrians a naval culture? They certainly did use riverine trade.
23 hours ago, M Helsdon said:The Orlanthi of Ralios have ships on the Upper Tanier.
The Umathelans have ships.
The sailing culture of the Umathelans is the Malkioni component, mostly. The Orlanthi may serve as marines, but they are unlikely to do the shiphandling in any leading role.
23 hours ago, M Helsdon said:Some of those use ships for trading, war, and probably raiding.
The Saxons - and the Old Norse after them - created their kingdoms from ships' crews. The first Orlanthi leader to do so appears to be Argrath.
The only Theyalan culture to which ships are as intrinsic as they were to the Minoans or the Myceneans are the Pelaskites, named Diroti in earlier works, after Diros, the (human) inventor of boats. They have been absorbed by the Orlanthi tribes of Heortland and the Houses of Esrolia to some extent - some claim to the point where they became hardly distinguishable from other Heortlanders or Esrolians. But then the laws of Aventus found application during the Adjustment Wars, so it seems to me that ethnic identity survived quite a long time of shared history, and I don't quite see how the last five centuries were so drastically different from the preceding nine or so when they had expanded to live alongside one another and share coastal settlements.
Once the Pelaskites leave their respective shores, they are mostly free of the adaptation pressure.
There are stories to be told about that - Norway has a horrid history about forcing the coastal Sami to abandon their own culture and traditions and to adopt Norse names and culture. Kethaela really has a tradition of hanging on to such identities instead, reveling in the different magics that both the OOO and Belintar could access through their diverse subjects.
The God Learners and the Adjustment Wars are cases of attempting such forcible conversions. Success was limited, but damage was inflicted.
Fisherfolk from the Heortland coast may identify as Orlanthi or Aeolians. IMO the ones denying their Pelaskite culture are restricted to coastal sailing.
Esrolian Houses do finance overseas merchants, and possibly some Heortland nobles do so, too. Aeolians possibly more readily than devout Orlanthi. Ships can be an excellent investment, as long as you avoid total loss of ship and crew. They may send their own daughters leading such expeditions, but then those daughters wouldn't be the default earth priestesses that make up their elite. To sail the seas may make you filthy rich, but the individual choosing the sailor's career is unlikely to rise high in the management of the House or the land.
Orlanthi may make excellent marines - they can board ships that aren't even adjacent to their own vessels, through use of Flight, Teleport, etc, and you may learn to appreciate Orlanth's weather magics if your ship is sailed. Callming a storm may not be their speciality, but directing it (and making it stronger) is.
